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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2524 Posts |
 Posted - 28 April 2012 : 11:37:51
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It is reported on BBC1 Teletext today (28th April) that Rangers supporters are going to march from Queens Park in Glasgow to the National Stadium to draw attention to their football club's plight. Some supporters believe that the Scottish Football authorities should have acted sooner to prevent the Ibrox club ending up in financial crisis.
That will be the same supporters that have celebrated their team winning numerous SPL titles and Scottish Cups since Sir David Murray purchased Rangers in 1986.
If these fans were not happy they should have contacted the Rangers shareholders who currently hold 25% of the shares not owned by Craig Whyte to express their concerns. |
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 28 April 2012 : 20:15:13
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You dont understand Islay. Its all the fault of the SFA, HMRC, Lloyds Bank, Dundee Utd, Hearts and Craig Whyte. They couldnt possibly march on their own club directors could they that would mean the blame lay with Rangers.....anyway they have all ran off having flogged the lot to Mr Whyte for the notorious £1.
I see that Sandie Jardine (a man I have held in the greatest respect as a player for many years) was uttering at a press conference how Rangers will apparently deal with those 'kicking them when they are down'. According to Rangers Supporters Trust today, these people will be 'dealt with appropriately'.
Really? given the stuff over the independent panel perhaps the SFA, SPL and appropriate teams should hear who is on that list and just what Rangers are threatening them with?
How can they get away with acting as if they are victims?
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Edited by - highway_star on 28 April 2012 20:25:06 |
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2524 Posts |
Posted - 28 April 2012 : 20:38:46
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Gerry.
I heard a female Rangers supporter being interviewed on BBC Reporting Scotland tonight. She said that Rangers' 12 month transfer ban should be suspended. I do not know which planet she is living on but it must be a blue one. These Rangers supporters seem to think that they can break the rules of Scottish football and because it is the "mighty Glasgow Rangers" it does not matter.
I was also very disappointed with Sandy Jardine. I always thought that he a thoroughly decent person and was a sales manager with Scottish Brewers after he retired from playing football. He has gone down greatly in my estimation of him.
As far as I am concerned the Rangers fans are trying to put pressure on the SPL and SFA to give in to Rangers. I just hope that the SPL and SFA stand up to Rangers if only for the rest of Scottish football. |
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 28 April 2012 : 22:29:22
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quote:
Originally posted by islaydarkblue
Gerry.
I heard a female Rangers supporter being interviewed on BBC Reporting Scotland tonight. She said that Rangers' 12 month transfer ban should be suspended. I do not know which planet she is living on but it must be a blue one. These Rangers supporters seem to think that they can break the rules of Scottish football and because it is the "mighty Glasgow Rangers" it does not matter.
I was also very disappointed with Sandy Jardine. I always thought that he a thoroughly decent person and was a sales manager with Scottish Brewers after he retired from playing football. He has gone down greatly in my estimation of him.
As far as I am concerned the Rangers fans are trying to put pressure on the SPL and SFA to give in to Rangers. I just hope that the SPL and SFA stand up to Rangers if only for the rest of Scottish football.
totally agree islay. We are on the brink here and sadly some might put very short term issues around TV money deals before what is right. I will happily eat my words if proved wrong.
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deleted
618 Posts |
Posted - 29 April 2012 : 17:32:10
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all the above was said by dundee fans , the majority on here have blamed everybody else for our troubles other clubs the sfl etc etc but there has been a complete lack of wanting to blame the real people who were responsible for getting us into admin, our past chair of the society ,[the official fans group ]even advocated in a statement that we boycott other clubs and all away games so rangers fans are doing nothing more than a lot of fans on here and dundee mad had been saying , when we were in admin our argument was that you should not punish the fans because they havent done anything wrong ,
dundee fc and the fans have done nothing to the real people who have caused our problems in fact Harry maclean refused to answer and email by me which stated that the club could have reported the directors to the HMRC and get them barred from ever being a director of a club again , our club has done nothing to punish those people
all the claims about cheating by not paying debts have been all labelled at Dundee, the difference is that when we did it we still didnt win anything couldnt even get promoted doing it where as rangers did win things
of course they have to be punished of that I have no doubt at all . but why have a 12 month transfer ban why was the ban not until they come out of admin [ like our ban ] and have paid all outstanding transfer fees. that to me makes sense.
rangers fans have done nothing wrong [exactly the sames as our fans but the above two posters seem to take the moral high ground and have forgotten about what we did,] at all. they do have power because they will boycott other grounds no matter which league they end up in and other clubs will suffer as a result
myself and only two or three other posters have wanted the club to punish the real people who caused our problems the rest have totally avoided it
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 30 April 2012 : 00:27:18
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I dont forget and find finger pointing by any Football club or its fans pathetic. I also agree that individuals as well as the club involved should be taken to task. I am astonished at how over the years directors in football seem capable of acts that can destroy a business yet walk away saying talk to the new guy nothing to do with us. In the US many of these people would be in court answering for their extremely dodgy decisions (as indeed the accountants involved in the extremely dodgy accounting practice). Perhaps the state of the world economy means the worm has finally turned and football clubs no longer can get away with old practice.
Regarding the 12 month ban, there have been comments made since then that if and when the evidence the panel had in front of them is published it will be clear that the punishment was nowhere near what the panel could have hit Rangers with (I asuume possible ejection from the league completely). And we still have the tax case and illegal contracts to come! if you listen to Rangers directors now, they are talking of liquidation, 3rd division etc. My hunch is that they know no one has the money to buy them and they are going to lose the tax case. Some of the figures being discussed elsewhere are scary - the number of players on illegal contracts over the years? upwards of 70 or more. Number of games involved? literally hundreds. The amount of money cheated from TV rights and fees gained in Champions League etc? tens of millions? yes, Dundee were 'at it' but its corner shop gone bust compared to the scale of what is about to be revealed.
I know plenty of Rangers fans that are your average person supporting a team but these threats are being made by the official supporters trusts as well as directors and deserve comment and criticism. Its also the sense of 'we will deal with them when appropriate' too. Really? We deserved a kicking and got one, so do Rangers.
As of now I think there is one last desperate attempt to offer a bid for Rangers pending from the Blue Knights. Have to say though the fact that they are scrambling around at this stage tells me that they dont actually have any money to invest long term and also hangs on the back of the tax man being very, very generous with them.
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Edited by - highway_star on 30 April 2012 07:46:53 |
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2524 Posts |
Posted - 30 April 2012 : 10:32:04
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Dundeemanonislay.
If you had been chaiman of Dundee FC when CM was bankrolling the club, what would you have done in that period. |
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 30 April 2012 : 20:49:54
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And so we see 'justice' when the problems involve Rangers. Neil Doncaster has basically just told Rangers via BBC Sportsound that if they reform as a 'newco' that all other penalties will be dropped. Years of corruption gone, wiped out, never happened. Utterly shameful.
Welcome to the franchise NFL Scotland where Rangers will never be allowed to be relegated or penalised. As for the rest of us?.... |
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darkbloo
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2563 Posts |
Posted - 30 April 2012 : 22:11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by highway_star
And so we see 'justice' when the problems involve Rangers. Neil Doncaster has basically just told Rangers via BBC Sportsound that if they reform as a 'newco' that all other penalties will be dropped. Years of corruption gone, wiped out, never happened. Utterly shameful.
Welcome to the franchise NFL Scotland where Rangers will never be allowed to be relegated or penalised. As for the rest of us?....
I took it that way as well, which seemed to pre-empt any discussion/decision by the SPL panel which seems compromised already. Anyway why are they flapping about now wanting to make new rules, get Rangers in as a newco but then amend all the rules to stop anyone else doing it, probably. Integrity has gone out the window, if there was any to start with. The SFA should go ahead with merging this unholy mess into one organisation and major league reconstruction.
Oh and Traynor's 'but it was their 2nd time' comment about us and 25 points all the time. Firstly there was no rule against being in admin when we did so in the SPL, and when we did so in the SFL it was a completely different organisation with no right to take the first one into account...but don't let the facts get in the way of conveniently brushing aside comparisons with Dundee's punishment! |
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 00:08:38
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or indeed Doncasters use of Crystal Palace and Plymouth Argyle as examples of newcos. Utter nonsense. Both teams attained CVA agreements that allowed them to reorganise and move on. There was no liquidation, if there had been both teams would have disappeared. If Rangers get a CVA, fair enough. He is arguing for something that is simply a corrupt act to save a TV deal and Rangers within the SPL.
He had the right kind of poodle for interviewing him though. Traynor would simply lap it up without questione and will happily spread the propoganda. Rather like his endlesss articles on the god-like Sir David Murray over the years.
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2524 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 00:14:48
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darkbloo
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2563 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 10:25:52
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quote:
Originally posted by islaydarkblue
Jim Traynor is biased in favour of Glasgow clubs.
His comments on us and then now Rangers are completely different, when we were admin he was saying maybe it would be a good thing if we went out of existence as a warning to others. |
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2524 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 16:21:26
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| I think that Neil Doncaster is "working his ticket" to a move back to England. |
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2524 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 17:29:01
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| All football fans who believe in fairness and upholding the rules should stop listening to Jim Traynor's radio show. If the number of listeners falls then his show will be dropped from the schedules. |
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McFlick
First Team Player
United Kingdom
292 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 20:30:20
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Rangers weren't giving a toss about scottish football when they were doing their best to join the ESPL, or Celtic for that matter. Sandy Jardine, a fine example of the Bully brothers at their best.
Never mind him giving back any medals etc, the SFA should demand them back after the threats he made to member clubs. |
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JohnB1987
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
1043 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2012 : 23:12:37
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quote:
Originally posted by dundeemanonislay
all the above was said by dundee fans , the majority on here have blamed everybody else for our troubles other clubs the sfl etc etc but there has been a complete lack of wanting to blame the real people who were responsible for getting us into admin, our past chair of the society ,[the official fans group ]even advocated in a statement that we boycott other clubs and all away games so rangers fans are doing nothing more than a lot of fans on here and dundee mad had been saying , when we were in admin our argument was that you should not punish the fans because they havent done anything wrong ,
dundee fc and the fans have done nothing to the real people who have caused our problems in fact Harry maclean refused to answer and email by me which stated that the club could have reported the directors to the HMRC and get them barred from ever being a director of a club again , our club has done nothing to punish those people
all the claims about cheating by not paying debts have been all labelled at Dundee, the difference is that when we did it we still didnt win anything couldnt even get promoted doing it where as rangers did win things
of course they have to be punished of that I have no doubt at all . but why have a 12 month transfer ban why was the ban not until they come out of admin [ like our ban ] and have paid all outstanding transfer fees. that to me makes sense.
rangers fans have done nothing wrong [exactly the sames as our fans but the above two posters seem to take the moral high ground and have forgotten about what we did,] at all. they do have power because they will boycott other grounds no matter which league they end up in and other clubs will suffer as a result
myself and only two or three other posters have wanted the club to punish the real people who caused our problems the rest have totally avoided it
Sorry, what?
Yes, Dundee fans blamed everyone else (well some did) and thought it was unfair that the fans were being punished for the actions of the board (an incorrect assessment), and i was as critical as anyone of Dundee's board, and indeed those fans who voiced the opinions above.
There wasn't a massive clamour from all concerned that "Dundee must be saved". The SFL judged us to have broken the rules, and punished us appropriately. Other than a few ill-advised and embarrassing mumblings from Harry, we accepted it and got on with surviving.
I must also take issue with your ludicrous statement that "Rangers fans have done nothing wrong". Please explain why various threats made to the independent SFA panel compare with anything Dundee fans did. I also fail to recall a 24 hour police presence being deployed outside the stadium of any of the club officials who imposed our penalty.
The ONLY similarity here is both sets of fans blaming the wrong people, and moaning about the fans being punished unfairly. ALL other comparisons are arrant nonsense.
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mev
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
758 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2012 : 07:36:05
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Some of the people bleating on about how badly Rangers are being treated are the very ones that wanted us hammered and even put out of existence altogether for being unfortunate enough to rely on a white knight that had major personal problems and potential court cases to deal with. The hypocrisy is unbelievable!
Rangers will survive and will be kept in the SPL no matter what. Remember what happened when Aberdeen finished bottom and should have been relegated? They reorganized the league and ensured Aberdeen were kept. Not sure that would happen again as Aberdeen's travelling support is way down on what it one was. However the SPL simply can't afford to lose Rangers. |
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deepdarkblue
First Team Player
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2012 : 23:27:05
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| Lifes not fair, Rangers (and Celtic) are big, every other club is wee (wait and see what happens to Hearts....). We will never have parity. Politics in our game will always win out, after all, the old boys who run the show write and amend the rules to suit themselves. Why else do we have 3 bodies running our game, after all, there is a whole 42 senior clubs to take 'care' of. We can forget any influence with the SPL as they are completely self interested, it's all short term in the SPL, certainly at the lower end where we would be stoodging about. The only reason I want to be involved with this crowd is that like it or not, it is the pinnacle of our game and I want my club to be at the top. Sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I do despair about the state of our game. I'll get me coat :-( |
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darkbloo
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2563 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2012 : 21:19:34
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The difference is that in the past many have maybe thought it was a case of treating some clubs as special but what is happening is proving that there are clubs treated as 'special'. The SPL board should vote on a newco getting in to the SPL yet today they seem to be changing to all clubs getting a vote, yet another example of having rules but changing them and making them up as they go along.
If the SPL keep a Rangers newco because they need the money then you have to ask what happens should Rangers2012 FC finish 12th next season? Is there no relegation, do DFC stay down should we win next season's 1st division but Rangers finish 12th, or do the 11th place team to down.
Today McCoist is expressing his concerns about other Scottish clubs finances should Rangers drop out the SPL, I wonder how much thought that was given in the last 10 years when they've had the meetings to try and leave Scottish football by choice to try and play elsewhere! |
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Bill Cairns
First Team Player
United Kingdom
183 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 11:08:01
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| Taking that last paragraph in context, and the two situations within it, would then suggest that they were quite prepared to sign the death knell of Scottish Football for their personal gain and two fingers to the rest. Sums them up in a nutshell really. |
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 13:08:36
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lets assume an SPL club with an average attendance of 6,000 over a season. Lets say they have two games with Rangers with a travelling support of 3,000 per game. Two home games, 6,000 fans in total. The argument is that taking that away is financial disaster. Any accountant or business man would spot that over a season it would mean average home gates would slip from 6,000 to 5,700 (approximately 6,000 fans over 19 home games). Apparently this figure would mean the death of Scottish football. Utter nonsense but there are many in the media quite happy to spout this kind of story.
If the vote goes the way of a newco Scottish football has basically reduced itself to a knocking shop for fraudsters and cheats where any act will be swept under the carpet as and when required (depending on who you are of course).
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Edited by - highway_star on 06 May 2012 14:08:03 |
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Supporters March
