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Dark Blue Dreamchaser
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
1509 Posts |
 Posted - 21 July 2012 : 21:50:04
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If found guilty of operating double contracts - The Oldco will be stripped of various League Titles and Cup Wins; including, of course that sunny afternoon in May 2003 when a certain Barry Smith hit the post after 8 mins and then a tall Italian centre back headed the only goal of a game we should have one.
Even I'm not old enough to have seen the Bob Crumley/ Sailor Hunter inspired win in the umpteenth replay against the Bully Wee, but a second Scottish Cup win in our 120 year history would be better than a smack in the mouth with a wet Haddock? Course it would --- |
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exile
Dundee Legend
1358 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2012 : 09:36:52
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| I suspect that, if they do strip Oldco of cups, there will be no winner. Declared null and void. |
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2012 : 12:26:11
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certainly interesting to see how this all plays out. I suspect a 'null and void' decision too, but it is perfectly possible that cup and league 'wins' may be handed out. I know especially for cups you could say well what about the team that lost in this round or that but they just might do it.
Of course if they werent champions then there is the equally thorny issue that they conned UEFA/FIFA with £ millions earned from Champions League tournaments they shouldnt have been in! doubt if anything can be done there though.
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amarmaladian
Fringe Player
73 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2012 : 14:27:10
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| No competition can be declared null and void. The sponsors wouldn't have it and would demand the payments back in full for the deal. I doubt all involved would be able to stump up the cash, so as in Italy a few years back the runners up would be awarded the titles posthumously. A hollow victory, but cheating must be punished. I would accept this. Being at Hampden that day, there was only one team in the game, lets face it. |
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alanrey25j
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
1104 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2012 : 15:56:26
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quote:
Originally posted by highway_star
certainly interesting to see how this all plays out. I suspect a 'null and void' decision too, but it is perfectly possible that cup and league 'wins' may be handed out. I know especially for cups you could say well what about the team that lost in this round or that but they just might do it.
Of course if they werent champions then there is the equally thorny issue that they conned UEFA/FIFA with £ millions earned from Champions League tournaments they shouldnt have been in! doubt if anything can be done there though.
If the commission does decide that Oldco did break the player registration rules then I'm hoping that Uefa, Fifa will step in and demand recompense. |
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2524 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2012 : 19:14:25
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| All they have to do is erase Rangers's name as winners during the 2001-10 period and show the runners-up name instead. |
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SensibleSoccer
Dundee Legend
Singapore
1674 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2012 : 05:17:53
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The tricky part will be if they strip RFC and then later find out someone else is guilty of the same.
It is hard to believe that if it (supposedly) worked for one club, that other clubs wouldn't have either
- done it themselves
- been approached by someone to do it for them
So imagine the mess if Hearts got awarded the '97 league cup (lost 4-3 to Rangers) but were then found guilty too.
NB I support taking the trophy away and awarding to the runners up because of previous treatment of Spartans and the like getting booted out of the cup for minor misdemeanours.
However, it would create a helluva mess, eg could someone sue for an increase in prize money?
What about earlier rounds etc etc? |
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exile
Dundee Legend
1358 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2012 : 08:01:19
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quote:
Originally posted by amarmaladian
No competition can be declared null and void. The sponsors wouldn't have it and would demand the payments back in full for the deal. I doubt all involved would be able to stump up the cash, so as in Italy a few years back the runners up would be awarded the titles posthumously. A hollow victory, but cheating must be punished. I would accept this. Being at Hampden that day, there was only one team in the game, lets face it.
I think it's pretty unlikely that sponsors would now worry about something that happened nearly 10 years ago. As far as I can see there is no reason not declare it void but, if not that, there is precedent for the Cup being withheld.
As far as I'm concerned I don't want the cup under these circustances. We may have dominated most of the game but, as so often at Hampden, we failed to use our advantage. |
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geedee1893
Fringe Player
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2012 : 08:28:45
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| They can't put not a winner on the base.theyd have to mention us thru default.its happened b4.with bigger clubs than the dee and the gers |
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JP
Dundee Legend
SCOTLAND
779 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2012 : 08:38:15
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At the time if I remember correctly, DFC, were millions of pounds in debt and weeks away from the clubs first term in administration, so would it not be hypocritical ??
Would there be any honour in achieving "honours" in this manner ?
I'm of the opinion that any club which has won honours whilst millions of pounds in debt is effectively cheating, by using money they don't have to gain in their sporting field !
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Euan
Dundee Legend
SCOTLAND
1241 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2012 : 10:15:48
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| I suspect that if they are removed from their winners position then the cup will be void that year. any team they beat ont he way to the final could claim they were cheated out of a chnce for a victory not just the team they beat in the final. Seems wrong to me to give any of the defeated finalists a "win" when other teams were "cheated" as well. Best to leave it as it is- their 11 players or how many they used beat the 11 players against them on the day so just give them their victory. |
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exile
Dundee Legend
1358 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2012 : 11:40:23
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| In any event it's largely academic now. Old Rangers no longer (or soon will no longer) exist and new The Rangers have zero trophies. |
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DensDerry80
Under 21's Squad Member
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2012 : 15:25:47
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quote:
Originally posted by JP
At the time if I remember correctly, DFC, were millions of pounds in debt and weeks away from the clubs first term in administration, so would it not be hypocritical ??
Would there be any honour in achieving "honours" in this manner ?
I'm of the opinion that any club which has won honours whilst millions of pounds in debt is effectively cheating, by using money they don't have to gain in their sporting field !
How much Debt do man united have? |
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exile
Dundee Legend
1358 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2012 : 17:21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by DensDerry80
quote:
Originally posted by JP
At the time if I remember correctly, DFC, were millions of pounds in debt and weeks away from the clubs first term in administration, so would it not be hypocritical ??
Would there be any honour in achieving "honours" in this manner ?
I'm of the opinion that any club which has won honours whilst millions of pounds in debt is effectively cheating, by using money they don't have to gain in their sporting field !
How much Debt do man united have?
How much honour do they have? |
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JP
Dundee Legend
SCOTLAND
779 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2012 : 22:52:41
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It's just because it is socially acceptable in this day & age to have debt, it doesn't mean it is right !
One day the English Premier League will implode and there will be big casualties such as Rangers in Scotland.
Are you putting any given club at serious risk by having large overdraft/gambling on money from a third party, sugar daddy ?
All that needs to happen is for Sky for example to pull the plug or for Sky to implode itself, it would then become a domino effect !!
The most honourable way to win "honours" is to do it by living within your means, very difficult, but highly rewarding, if achieved.
Craving success in sport/football shouldn't be at any cost !! |
Edited by - JP on 24 July 2012 06:43:01 |
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alanrey25j
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
1104 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2012 : 00:34:26
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quote:
Originally posted by JP
At the time if I remember correctly, DFC, were millions of pounds in debt and weeks away from the clubs first term in administration, so would it not be hypocritical ??
Would there be any honour in achieving "honours" in this manner ?
I'm of the opinion that any club which has won honours whilst millions of pounds in debt is effectively cheating, by using money they don't have to gain in their sporting field !
The EBTs are about wrongful registration of players not debt.
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2524 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2012 : 00:45:09
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| Manchester United currently have net debt of £425 million. |
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LBC
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
582 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2012 : 17:03:12
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"That's why we should applaud these teams who can't afford to make the million pound buys... and win nothing..."
Only An Excuse...1984 ! (nothing changes) |
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SensibleSoccer
Dundee Legend
Singapore
1674 Posts |
Posted - 26 July 2012 : 06:32:08
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quote:
Originally posted by LBC
"That's why we should applaud these teams who can't afford to make the million pound buys... and win nothing..."
Only An Excuse...1984 ! (nothing changes)
Onky an excuse didn't start on telly until the 90s, was on radio before but don't think that early - ate you sure it wasn't the Rev IM Jolly? |
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 26 July 2012 : 18:51:16
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quote:
Originally posted by islaydarkblue
Manchester United currently have net debt of £425 million.
to be fair to Utd that has nothing to do with blasting huge sums on players. They were basically mugged (!) by their new owners who decided to use a world wide brand like Man U to transfer all their debts on to from their other failing business investments via an enormous loan! the last figures I saw a couple of years back it takes most of Man U's season long income to pay off the loan and occuring interest. |
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LBC
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
582 Posts |
Posted - 27 July 2012 : 12:44:49
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quote:
Originally posted by SensibleSoccer
quote:
Originally posted by LBC
"That's why we should applaud these teams who can't afford to make the million pound buys... and win nothing..."
Only An Excuse...1984 ! (nothing changes)
Onky an excuse didn't start on telly until the 90s, was on radio before but don't think that early - ate you sure it wasn't the Rev IM Jolly?
I just re-read my initial post... i typo'd a 4 instead of a 7 from my numpad.!
It is from the Casette Tapes that they put out of the radio specials:
Only an Excuse.
Only Another Excuse / A Tale of Two Seasons
Only a World Cup Excuse.
These are AMAZINGLY funny, better than the TV shows ever were (although they were great initially), their treatment of "Jovial Jim Mclean" is hilarious;
"Last week Paul Sturrock scored the winer against Rangers and turned tae the crowd an' smiled... So ah fined him a month's wagees. People don't come tae watch Dundee United tae see Paul Sturrock smile! In fact... people don't come tae watch Dundee United at all! An' ah HATE that!"
The "million buyss" quote above is from 'Ernie Walker'.
I ripped my casettes to CD and still play them in the car... brilliant stuff. |
Edited by - LBC on 27 July 2012 16:12:37 |
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Ee Ay- Aydio We won the Cup?
