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Neil McCanns chip
First Team Player
185 Posts |
 Posted - 14 May 2012 : 16:30:14
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quote:
Hi David, just wondering if you emailed the board reps with your questions? Maybe there is a reluctance to reply on a forum although I am sure there would be a few who would like answers, as well to the questions Neil Mcanns Chip posed.
Emailed a director but no reply yet Dodgy. |
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David Brodie
Dundee Legend
SCOTLAND
1780 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2012 : 17:00:38
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Methinks there's nowt dodgy more the Board/CEO have there hands full with lots and more than lots to get on with for them!
It's just a pity they'd not
1. Trailed the offers as they appear to have known about them earlier.
2, Dovetailed launch and T&C's together.
3, And potentially not over promised the scale and quantum of the "benefits". Perhaps a more Ronsealesque approach might have been the better option?
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dmbuild66
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
800 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2012 : 20:03:31
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quote:
Originally posted by 1893Deeman
As another one of these pesky out-of-town supporters, I too am disappointed with this singular offer fromt he club.
How difficult would it have been to give the fans the option as to whether or not they want these additional benefits ? I ask because I still cannot find the terms and conditions anywhere on the site for these additional offers.
One forumite suggested earlier that out-of-town fans "make a day of it" when Dundee are at home. I am an ice hockey fan and would love to go to the game at Dens and then to the ice hockey in the evening. However, last season, when I looked at doing this, Dundee Stars were only at home on two or three occasions throughout the whole season when Dundee were also at home. Therefore, that benefit is of no use to me as I would be faced with the 100-mile round trip on consecutive days (Saturday for DFC games and Sunday for the hockey) to use that particular offer. Most Stars home games are on a Sunday and we DFC are only at home every other week.
That is just one example of course. As someone who doesn't live in Dundee, gym membership for my wife is also of no use and I suspect there will be multiple conditions to the other offers.
Whilst I applaud the board's attempts to do something different, the response to this topic shows that they have badly misjudged the habits of out-of-town fans, of which there are many.
The most likely outcome now is that a lot of non-Dundee residing fans will not renew their season ticket and instead will pick and choose which games they come along to. In the last few years, all it takes is to miss a couple of games and you are better doing that anyway with our sky-high fees for paying at the turnstile.
The club will then lose even more revenue because people like myself won't be so careful to book holidays which don't clash with DFC home games, they won't come through on cold December days or if the club aren't doing well.
Though I love the club, and look forward to Saturdays at Dens Park, there were times last season when I didn't fancy watching another toothless display, particularly in early season, and if I didn't come along, I knew the club had my cash for the season ticket so my not being there didn't affect the cash received by DFC. This coming season, such decisions will have a direct financial impact as I won't be a season ticket holder.
£300 (or thereabouts) is far too much for First Division football at any ground.
I too am a pesky out-of-town-supporter!
Why should DFC give you the option of these benefits? They are free! Your option is to use them or not! I believe you are not paying for them. DFC are hopefully going to add more benefits as the season progresses - free. As you already said there were 3 matches at the ice-hockey last season which you could attend after the Dundee match meaning a saving of £15 per match per adult - you have saved £45. So good so far. Add onto that free tickets to Cineworld, maybe a meal out and a discount voucher for the club shop thrown in its not bad for free. There are some things that are no use to me either BUT I ain't gonna complain about them.
As I stated in another post, I paid £280 last season for my ticket and I don't think another £17 is going to break the bank, nor do I believe that if £17 extra stops anyone buying a season ticket that they were going to buy one anyway.
There are circa 45 posters on this thread which is a small percentage of season ticket holders if indeed they all are, only a few have said they are definitely not going to buy a season ticket this coming season and hopefully some will change their minds and others that havn't had a season ticket before will replace the ones that don't renew. But working out at £16.50 per game to see your team with a few freebies thrown in doesn't seem too bad to me. |
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darkbloo
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2615 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2012 : 21:06:10
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Did the T&Cs for the offers etc come out today as promised?
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fraserm
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
1477 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 00:33:22
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Grant, the rest of the board and I have taken on board your numerous comments and those of other fans. I have made a detailed statement which I trust will answer the majority of your questions here: http://www.dundeefc.co.uk/news_detail.asp?h=STATEMENT-RE-SEASON-TICKETS&newsid=2332
As to the price paid for advertising, or travel and staff resources, I hope you’ll understand that this fine level of detail is something internal for the club’s management (although in the case you mention, John Brown had simply sent a tweet as he was going on holiday and yet this is also being called into question). We’re as open and honest as we can be, have published regular KPIs and are working on a date for the third Q&A this season (fourth if you count the Society AGM), where we will hope for a big turnout of fans interested in balancing the finance, not just the football.
Constructive criticism and feedback are essential and very much valued by all the board and the CEO. It’s a long and difficult road we’re on, but let’s all work together to get this great club back where it belongs. |
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mev
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 07:25:15
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Hopefully the club statement will satisfy those complaining about the season ticket increase. Those running the club have a difficult job and have to balance the books. We don't have a white knight like United and others so have to rely on the season tickets to allow us to compete with other clubs in the first division. I was expecting an increase to be honest and was actually surprised it was so small and, although as an 'out of towner' I won't be able to take advantage of the 'offers', I will still be purchasing a season ticket (once the funds are available) in order to support the club with my entrance money. I only manage to a handful of games at Dens during the course of a season and so count the cost of my missed games as a donation to the club. I know others that do the same.
Whilst I appreciate that dads on low incomes with families to take along may be heavily impacted by the increase, I believe that the increase is fair considering the current financial climate.
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Euan
Dundee Legend
SCOTLAND
1241 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 08:20:05
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In response to the statement I wonder if anyone could tell me
1. What was out average home league attendance and what did we budget for
2. Why did anyone expect a play off place to keep interest going?
3. Is there a package that you can download or have sent to you detailing the terms or conditions that are supposed to sell the season ticket to those who would not normally buy one?
And in response to any wh0o say use it dont use the benefits I say well thats fine but it is a "benefit" to get more to buy season tickets I suspect and not very good one if there a huge lists of terms and conditions.
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we_are_dundee
Fringe Player
90 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 08:38:39
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quote:
Originally posted by fraserm
Grant, the rest of the board and I have taken on board your numerous comments and those of other fans. I have made a detailed statement which I trust will answer the majority of your questions here: http://www.dundeefc.co.uk/news_detail.asp?h=STATEMENT-RE-SEASON-TICKETS&newsid=2332
As to the price paid for advertising, or travel and staff resources, I hope you’ll understand that this fine level of detail is something internal for the club’s management (although in the case you mention, John Brown had simply sent a tweet as he was going on holiday and yet this is also being called into question). We’re as open and honest as we can be, have published regular KPIs and are working on a date for the third Q&A this season (fourth if you count the Society AGM), where we will hope for a big turnout of fans interested in balancing the finance, not just the football.
Constructive criticism and feedback are essential and very much valued by all the board and the CEO. It’s a long and difficult road we’re on, but let’s all work together to get this great club back where it belongs.
Fraser,
Your statment is nothing more than a begging letter IMO, we get one every year dependant on who is in the hotseat. I was told by a board member at the start of the season that the club had budgeted for 4200 average home attandance, based on what I can find on the internet our average was 4224 so surely we should be up on last season?
The BOD are choosing to ignore the pertinent questions:
1. What will the gate prices be?
2. What will the cost be when the early bird discount end? |
Edited by - we_are_dundee on 15 May 2012 12:39:02 |
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Neil McCanns chip
First Team Player
185 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 09:31:06
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To me, this statement confirms that the CEO misled fans by letting it appear that we had brought in more money from the bond sale over and above the investment already announced twice. I actually think the bonds are a very innovative way of attracting additional investment and to sell the number we have in the current financial climate is remarkable. The board should be applauded for thinking outside the box, but not for giving out misleading messages about the money they are generating.
There is no detail on the following:
1. Projected season ticket sales and the implications if we fail to hit this target.
2. The walk-up prices for next season.
3. What the full cost of a season ticket will be once the early bird offer end.
4. The terms and conditions which other fans have asked for.
5. Why a club director is comparing early bird (2012-13) and full price (2011-12) to claim a small increase in season ticket costs.
Very few supporters will have received substantial wage increases over the past two years and, with widespread pay freezes, persistently high unemployment rates, and the cost of living going up, the majority have less disposable income. So of course many will baulk at a 14% price increase (early bird-early bird), especially when their intelligence is being insulted by being told this "small" increase doesn't stop the £300 early bird price being the "best value season ticket ever offered".
Dress it up any way you like, but £300 is simply too much to charge for first division football and, far from bringing in more income, this hike will in all likelihood cost the club a substantial sum we can ill-afford to lose. |
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SensibleSoccer
Dundee Legend
Singapore
1704 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 09:52:22
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This topic is a bit like the Lindleys one, it comes around once or twice a year, filled with complaints and then thousands go out and buy one.
My tuppence worth;
I've never been involved in a discussion where people were applauding a price rise, so I don't think people should be too worried about the negative feedback on here.
As said before, if people are struggling to pay £300, they would surely be struggling at £280 as well, so are best advised to not buy a season ticket at all, and choose to attend games only if and when they can afford to, they are still welcome at Dens.
As for paying up on credit, I've posted here before on this ludicrous idea, if you want to attend matches over a season but can't afford the lump sum in one go - you can pay in convenient installments - at the gate every time you go to a game!
Advantages:
Every penny goes to DFC, none to a bank/financier
pick and choose your games
Benefit from dropped entry fees later in the season
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dundee47
First Team Player
United Kingdom
159 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 11:08:12
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| I too am an out of town supporter but will renew my season ticket despite the increase. Remember it costs money to put a team on the park capable of getting promotion, or would you prefer the Raith Rovers scenario of going part-time and simply existing in the 1st Division. So boys and girls pay up and help the club. |
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Grantzer
First Team Player
212 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 11:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Euan
In response to the statement I wonder if anyone could tell me
1. What was out average home league attendance and what did we budget for
2. Why did anyone expect a play off place to keep interest going?
3. Is there a package that you can download or have sent to you detailing the terms or conditions that are supposed to sell the season ticket to those who would not normally buy one?
And in response to any wh0o say use it dont use the benefits I say well thats fine but it is a "benefit" to get more to buy season tickets I suspect and not very good one if there a huge lists of terms and conditions.
Nice to see you are keeping an open mind until you find out the answers.......... gift horse anyone? |
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darkbloo
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2615 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 11:26:19
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quote:
Originally posted by mev
Hopefully the club statement will satisfy those complaining about the season ticket increase. Those running the club have a difficult job and have to balance the books. We don't have a white knight like United and others so have to rely on the season tickets to allow us to compete with other clubs in the first division. I was expecting an increase to be honest and was actually surprised it was so small and, although as an 'out of towner' I won't be able to take advantage of the 'offers', I will still be purchasing a season ticket (once the funds are available) in order to support the club with my entrance money. I only manage to a handful of games at Dens during the course of a season and so count the cost of my missed games as a donation to the club. I know others that do the same.
Whilst I appreciate that dads on low incomes with families to take along may be heavily impacted by the increase, I believe that the increase is fair considering the current financial climate.
Before the negative police jump all over me, I'll make it clear I'm playing devils' advocate on some of these points as I also will be buying my adult and 2 kids season tickets as normal and would have done so without the extra offers. I'm fortunate to be able to afford to, I also like this offers thing, it looks positive to me and hopefully I can take advantage of many deals, I use a Spree book already that is very similar. Anyway...
The early door season ticket price has gone up over 14%, that is not a small increase, that is a large increase and I can't see how anyone can say different.
This is at a time when the country is in recession and many are a lot worse off than they were this time last year. Wages are being driven down, things like transport costs have shot up massively and child tax credits etc have been getting slashed by the Government, and many will have lost jobs or had no pay rises the last couple of years. This has had a huge impact on 'spare' spending for many and again I don't see how anyone can say any different. It's not just how much more the price is this season it is how much cash people have. Also the standard of football and entertainment on offer has been going down season by season and it has to be said again that no playoff for 2nd raises the prospect, as Fraser alluded to, that many games at the end of the season can be rendered meaningless because of this so you can see why paying at the gate instead could be attractive to many.
The increase is being sold on the back of these new 'benefits' but we still don't seem to have been told the terms and conditions or even when you can start using them and how to use them. Can me and 3 friends (with season tickets) all turn up for a free 3-course meal at 5:30pm at the Hilton on a Saturday or is it only valid between 2:00pm and 2:15pm on a Tuesday, with only one voucher per table when spending at least £100 and you have to be in fancy dress and wearing a red nose! Not funny at all I know but that's the point, people will want to know the conditions.
Add to this also that we don't know what the full price season ticket will cost and also we have no idea what the pay at the gate price will be. I'm sure this has put many over a quandary as to whether they can afford to buy one or will go for pay at the gate, so this information should all have been out at launch time. When do you sell a season ticket for anything without saying what the pay on the day price will be?
I'd also say after reading Fraser's comments that many fans will only be interested in paying to see the team but are not going to be involved apart from that, that's just reality. The board has to live with that and budget accordingly. We are in an extremely fortunate position where many of our fans do give so much free time and money to the club, probably more so than maybe every club in Scotland, but as our CEO said at the recent player of the year dinner, you can't go to the same well too often and you just cannot take it for granted.
I really hope the season ticket sales increase but only time will tell.
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Jocky
Internationalist
472 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 11:42:59
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Disgraceful is way over the top.
The club are doing their best, although I admit I do wince at £19 admission myself.
And buying a season ticket is the best way to avoid all that wincing. |
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ewen watt
Fringe Player
United Kingdom
72 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 11:59:21
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| It is very disappointing that some contributors moan about season and gate prices, early bird deals, KPIs, board motives,alleged conspiracies, Tannadice comparators, such as to discredit any off-the-field efforts as we strive to remain within the operating budget,maintain adequate cash flow,and discharge the CVA obligations. "Facts are chiels that winna ding" and we cannot go on endlessly with price freezes, while governments/agencies/monopolies etc impose higher VAT,fuel/energy prices, and alcohol duties, insurance hikes, and endless new legislation impacting on all businesses including professional and amateur sports clubs struggling to survive. It is not unusual for Golf clubs,for example, to charge 2.5-3% on credit card subscription payments on top of the interest charges that a customer has to pay (16-20%) or a 10/12 monthly direct debit arrangement.Credit is not free! DFC is not an amateur sports club that attracts rates relief from Council or HMRC. We have to pay our way and meet costs as efficiently as possible. To get promoted,i believ that we need some new players and with no "White Knight" in prospect, we have to fund investment ourselves by bonds, new income streams or higher gates. Rangers,in administration and apparently up to £135million in debt, will put their season prices up under Green's latest takeover offer. Dunfermline will slash the players pool from 28 to 21 or even 18. Until there is league reconstruction, peace with the SPL, a TV deal, play offs or 2 up/down to maintain end season interest and crowds, I fear all SFL clubs will always struggle for foreseeable future. Scott Gardiner, the board and DFCSS fans/reps seemed damned if they do and damned if they dont in a dreadful ongoing recession with wage freezes too. But this constant girning by some is destructive, disheartening and undermines genuine efforts to do the best for the club and fans alike.Frankly,it all makes me wonder if some so-called fans want to see our proud club continue. We are not Man U or Man City mega millionaires or bust Rangers, who have indulged in highly questionable financial/tax practices as the SFA investigation makes clear. QOS and Partick Thistle are also under severe financial pressure. £300 for a DFC season or £20 at the gate is not cheap but not unreasonable, although a Family ticket, under 12s for £2,under 16s for @£5, full-time student discounts,a cup "bonus entry",or occasional 2 for 1 loyalty bonus are all things to be tried--or have been!. For example, Edinburgh Rugby have generated new interest and gained supporters by trying new things on back of their Heineken Eurpoean Cup success and pay-at-the-gate turnstiles re-introduced for Friday evening games and some internationals. Scotland Supporters Club members-not a freebie either-can access deals, the shop, and points for international home/away tickets from the SFA. We can learn from others and must adopt best business practice.Let's not be insular and parochial. So can we all, please, take a reality check and pull together for the greater good of club, players and fans. |
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Deedale
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
534 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 12:54:42
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| In the message from Fraser Macdonald on home page he states "we need to ask all Dundee fans to share the pain and take up a season ticket if you can" its probably not the best thing to say when tyring to promote season ticket sales!! |
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Euan
Dundee Legend
SCOTLAND
1241 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 14:02:53
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Euan
In response to the statement I wonder if anyone could tell me
1. What was out average home league attendance and what did we budget for
2. Why did anyone expect a play off place to keep interest going?
3. Is there a package that you can download or have sent to you detailing the terms or conditions that are supposed to sell the season ticket to those who would not normally buy one?
And in response to any wh0o say use it dont use the benefits I say well thats fine but it is a "benefit" to get more to buy season tickets I suspect and not very good one if there a huge lists of terms and conditions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice to see you are keeping an open mind until you find out the answers.......... gift horse anyone?
No idea what you mean, I always believed it is better to keep an open mnind on most things until I find out the answers! Even things about DFC |
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Dark Blue Dreamchaser
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
1513 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 14:05:02
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Its simple economics; something is only worth what people will pay for it; entrance to our beloved Dens Park, both season tickets and pay at the gate is currently going to give some fans a problem and may have the contradictory effect of actually reducing revenue.
A good number of season ticket holders and pay as you go fans (including myself) - will pay up whatever the price, but not everyone is in a position to do so.
As for the so called £1,000 of benefits; they are not worth the paper they are written on, can be obtained by other means and are of no use to our large out of town following. |
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darkbloo
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2615 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 15:10:29
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quote:
Originally posted by ewen watt
It is very disappointing that some contributors moan about...
You mean you aren't happy that others are expressing a different opinion to yours so you want to label them as negative or grumbling to reinforce your opinion is correct and their opinion is wrong? It's a forum!
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brianrattray
Dundee Legend
SCOTLAND
536 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 16:02:31
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[quote]Originally posted by fraserm
Grant, the rest of the board and I have taken on board your numerous comments and those of other fans. I have made a detailed statement which I trust will answer the majority of your questions here: http://www.dundeefc.co.uk/news_detail.asp?h=STATEMENT-RE-SEASON-TICKETS&newsid=2332
Fraser I realise you say majority of questions thats fine, but a lot of the questions were regarding The T&C's of using the discounts,? is it certain days/times etc .
Am sure if these were clarified it would help a lot. thanks Brian |
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Season ticket prices
