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Euan
Dundee Legend
SCOTLAND
1241 Posts |
 Posted - 29 March 2012 : 10:46:30
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| There was a classic case of the danger of fans running football clubs when the Rangers Trust fighting fund decided to pay off the debt owed by the club to Dunfermline and did not do the same with Dundee United who they dislike. Surely this is not the way forward. If they are supporting their team they should have cleared all the debt. This behaviour is of the bully boys and will come back to haunt Rangers I fear ( not that I really care) |
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2012 : 18:23:16
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| These guys couldnt see how their initially positive act of paying Dunfermline was reduced to utmost pettiness in the way they treated United. I cant get my head around how Rangers fans seem to treat all the problems heaped on them just now as being someone elses fault whether Lloyds Bank, HMRC, Dundee Utd etc etc. |
Edited by - highway_star on 29 March 2012 18:50:37 |
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James Christie
Internationalist
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2012 : 18:37:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Euan
There was a classic case of the danger of fans running football clubs when the Rangers Trust fighting fund decided to pay off the debt owed by the club to Dunfermline and did not do the same with Dundee United who they dislike.
I disagree. This incident reflects badly on the people running the Rangers Trust, not the supporter ownership movement. The Rangers Trust don't run or own the club and it looks extremely unlikely they will ever come close to either. If they did own the club then they'd be more considered and responsible. Their action means they look like people who prefer to make gestures rather than expect to take on serious responsibility.
When we were in admin DFCSS knew they were the only show in town and they had to be deadly serious about everything they did. The idea of bypassing the administration process to make payments to "honourable" creditors and make offensive comments about others would have been unthinkable.
Also, I think it's an important point to distinguish between supporters owning a club and supporters running it. |
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barrydee
Fringe Player
64 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2012 : 21:55:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Euan
There was a classic case of the danger of fans running football clubs when the Rangers Trust fighting fund decided to pay off the debt owed by the club to Dunfermline and did not do the same with Dundee United who they dislike. Surely this is not the way forward. If they are supporting their team they should have cleared all the debt. This behaviour is of the bully boys and will come back to haunt Rangers I fear ( not that I really care)
To be honest surely that decision is pails into insignificance within the big picture.
Danger of businessmen running clubs in this case has lead to 100,000,000 worth of debt.
People will jump at the smallest mistakes than fans make but shrug there shoulders at the colossal mistakes by so called experts ie 'businessmen'
It's a fact that some treated the vote fiasco of late last year as a reason that only businessmen can make decisions.... conveniently forgetting that it was those types that have taken our club to the brink of death on many occasions. |
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04 April 2012 : 23:53:01
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| Stephen Thompson of Dundee United may have the last laugh if United are not paid in full in the next two weeks as they will then become a Rangers creditor. Stephen Thompson could then vote against the CVA and force Rangers into liquidation with no European football at Ibrox for the next three seasons. That would be poetic justice. |
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Dark Blue Dreamchaser
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
1506 Posts |
Posted - 05 April 2012 : 13:35:19
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quote:
Originally posted by islaydarkblue
Stephen Thompson of Dundee United may have the last laugh if United are not paid in full in the next two weeks as they will then become a Rangers creditor. Stephen Thompson could then vote against the CVA and force Rangers into liquidation with no European football at Ibrox for the next three seasons. That would be poetic justice.
Problem is and evidence suggests that, when a scuffle actually breaks out in the dance hall, all ten of the non old firm chairs are to be found hiding behind the piano! |
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JohnB1987
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
1043 Posts |
Posted - 14 April 2012 : 02:02:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Blue Dreamchaser
Problem is and evidence suggests that, when a scuffle actually breaks out in the dance hall, all ten of the non old firm chairs are to be found hiding behind the piano!
Excellent, and unfortunately true analogy.
If Rangers do go down the fan ownership route however, it can only end in tears (for them). As far as i am aware the major supporters organisations are the RST, and the likes of Vanguard Bears and whoever runs RangersMedia. If you are not of a squeamish dispostiion i'd suggest checking out the messageboards on their pages. Even the more "respected" members and admins post some absolutely shocking, dark age stuff. Word of warning, you will probably want to bathe in disinfectant after reading.
It would be an absolute disaster/hilarious* (delete as applicable) if they were to be involved in running Rangers.
I read somewhere that since going into Admin in mid February, they STILL haven't raised as much as Dundee fans did, which considering the relative sizes of the clubs is quite remarkable.
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exile
Dundee Legend
1356 Posts |
Posted - 24 April 2012 : 17:04:38
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnB1987
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Blue Dreamchaser
Problem is and evidence suggests that, when a scuffle actually breaks out in the dance hall, all ten of the non old firm chairs are to be found hiding behind the piano!
Excellent, and unfortunately true analogy.
If Rangers do go down the fan ownership route however, it can only end in tears (for them). As far as i am aware the major supporters organisations are the RST, and the likes of Vanguard Bears and whoever runs RangersMedia. If you are not of a squeamish dispostiion i'd suggest checking out the messageboards on their pages. Even the more "respected" members and admins post some absolutely shocking, dark age stuff. Word of warning, you will probably want to bathe in disinfectant after reading.
It would be an absolute disaster/hilarious* (delete as applicable) if they were to be involved in running Rangers.
I read somewhere that since going into Admin in mid February, they STILL haven't raised as much as Dundee fans did, which considering the relative sizes of the clubs is quite remarkable.
I suspect this is because they harbor expectations of being 'saved'. As JamesChrsitie (above) has rightly poined out our sitaution was rather different. The options were either we save the club ourselves or we close down. |
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darkbloo
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2555 Posts |
Posted - 24 April 2012 : 19:28:39
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| After the SFA sanctions, I was astonished at comments on radio Scotland by guys like Dodds, Higgins, Traynor etc.. Have they all forgotten Dundee had a ban on registering players, hence the trialists! These guys have short memories. The SFA agreed with our 25 point deduction and endorsed the ban on us signing players so they set a precedent already. |
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markmcdee
Fringe Player
United Kingdom
114 Posts |
Posted - 25 April 2012 : 06:49:41
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Agree 100% with DARKBLOO. Why do Rangers supporters think they should not have signing restrictions imposed when the club is owing £millions to creditors?
Do they honestly believe that it is OK to pay for players and not pay their bills?
I can honestly say that when Dundee had the signing embargo imposed on them I agreed with that.
What I cant understand is Billy Dodds take on it when he was one of the people who had to take the hit of administration, how would he have felt if Dundee replaced him by paying for and signing a replacement? |
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XPAT
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
668 Posts |
Posted - 25 April 2012 : 16:34:25
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| I e-mailed the Daily Record Hot Line making the above comparison and glad to say that Hugh Keevins used the e-mail in today's paper. |
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highway_star
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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darkbloo
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2555 Posts |
Posted - 25 April 2012 : 20:24:46
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When you read what McCoist is saying, you have to feel for them...
“There are already managers sniffing about players, I know of that. They are vultures around our squad which angers and disappoints me. But that’s the territory we are in."
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2511 Posts |
Posted - 25 April 2012 : 21:18:21
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| When Fraser Wishart was speaking to the Courier in October 2010, Rangers were at that time potentially close to being £100 Million in debt including the up-coming Big tax case. |
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deepdarkblue
First Team Player
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 25 April 2012 : 23:57:39
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| If anyone thinks we will be used as some kind of standard for clubs going belly up then they are delusional. Much as the double standards may stick in our craws, we are a provincial wee club in a lower league governed by a different body. Oh aye, and we don't have SKY paying to watch us play regularly. My understanding is that the SFA have given the SPL and SFA until the end of the month to settle their differences and sort things out, if they can't then they say they'll step in (don't know how feasible or legal, or how much of an empty threat it is). Ofcourse, if all parties are happy to go along then a 'new' league could invite whoever they choose to join, saving the integrity (:-0 ) of the existing bodies. Its going to be an interesting closed season |
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n/a
deleted
618 Posts |
Posted - 26 April 2012 : 00:37:58
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| douglas how can you positively prove that? what is your source for those figures ? |
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2511 Posts |
Posted - 26 April 2012 : 17:42:27
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The total creditors listed on 5th April 2012 was £134.9 million.
£134.9M less £26.8M to Ticketus = £108.1M plus £18M due to Lloyds Banking Group = 126.1M less £14M due to HMRC for PAYE and VAT collected but not handed over since Craig Whyte took charge in June 2011 = £112.1M.
I have not included the £2.5M part payment from Everton FC for Jelavic.
Therefore at October 2010 I reckon that Rangers were close to being £100 Million in debt.
I trust that you have looked at the list of creditors on the Rangers website.
You do not have to be Einstein to work it out. |
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n/a
deleted
618 Posts |
Posted - 26 April 2012 : 18:32:07
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| the annual report for 2010 clearly show that rangers had creditors falling within one year 27.68 million and after one year 37 million and they made a profit of 4.29 million pounds on the year. |
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2511 Posts |
Posted - 27 April 2012 : 14:17:13
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£27.68 Million plus £37 Million equals 64.68 Million plus HMRC Big Tax Case of £49 Million Total £113.68. If Rangers made a profit that year why was David Murray desparate to sell Rangers.
You seem to be very pro Rangers Football Club. Perhaps you would like to tell the rest of the users of the Forum why. |
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n/a
deleted
618 Posts |
Posted - 28 April 2012 : 01:21:37
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| frankly its none of your business douglas |
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islaydarkblue
Dundee Legend
United Kingdom
2511 Posts |
Posted - 28 April 2012 : 11:26:06
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In yesterday's Courier Walter Smith ex-manager of Rangers is quoted as saying that "Rangers at the end of May last year (2011) had no debt whatsoever due to the fact that the bank debt had been paid off and they were paying their bills".
I find this comment amazing as Rangers have still NOT published their annual accounts for the year ending in 2011. That is why they were delisted from the Plus Market at the London Stock Exchange earlier this year.
When Craig Whyte took over Rangers he paid Sir David Murray £1 for the exsisting DEBT and agreed to pay off the overdraft of £18 Million with Lloyds Banking Group.
Dundeemanonislay states that the Rangers annual report for 2010 shows creditors falling within one year of £27.68 Milion and after one year of £37 Million with means that in 2010 Rangers had outstanding debts of £64.68 Million. There is no way that these debts could be cleared off by the end of May 2011 unless Sir David Murray used his own funds to clear them off himself.
Walter Smith should stick to being a football manager and leave the financial matters to the experts!! |
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Danger of fans running clubs
